Question about adjusting rules

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Question about adjusting rules

Post by Harkonius on Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:11 am

Do you guys have modified rules to fix the disparity between 1.0 and 2.0 figures? If so, do you have it posted somewhere? It'd be an interesting read.

I've been browsing through the tons of battle reports in this forum and I've noticed that you guys play 2.0 but use a whole bunch of 1.0 units. As we all know, a bunch of 1.0 figures pretty much got broken with the 2.0 rules and I'd like to know if you adjust them to make the figures play as they were originally intended to behave.

Bound/Charge and Horseshoe speed types for example

Bound/Charge 1.0 figures typically start with small speed values because the ability gives them free DT then when they lose the ability, they get a higher speed value. Like say the Horned Hatchetkrugg who has a transition of Charge 5 to a Vanilla 9. In 2.0, horseshoe types get free DT anyway so in my example it gets really broken. Free DT for 10 or a 5 move then attack, then when it gets hurt and loses Charge it suddenly gets free DT for 18? It just doesn't make sense. Also, the mounted horseshoe ramming figures are ultra fast now. Dwarven Ram free 24 inch DT anyone?

Boot type Bound/Chargers get the ultimate arseplugging. Magestone Knight 3 move no free DT? He wasn't all that cool back in 1.0, but the high attack, FL and quasi decent bound made him playable. 2.0 just sends him straight to the trash.

Long story short, do you try to tone these figures down and try to use the 1.0 rulings for them instead despite playing a 2.0 game? Or at least mitigate the overpoweredness? If so do you guys have set guidelines to implement or just wing it per figure? Or do you just not use said figures at all?

I still see the classic Tough War Hats in report photos, a Rammer that gets free 20 Inch DT for only 40 points which also seems broken. MK 2.0 onwards, the horseshoe type figures with a high base speed are costed accordingly.

So in a non pure faction game for example and I wanted a horseshoe DTer with 10 speed, why would I play a Weak Centaur Shaman (Which seems like a really good fodder figure to play) when for a mere 11 points more I can have a Tough War Hatchetkrugg? It should cost more, or at least have penalties in movement.
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Re: Question about adjusting rules

Post by Admin on Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:42 pm

We have our 1.0 formats and we have our 2.0 formats. Either way is good. You can challenge any format to the current players :-) . Just let us know beforehand so we can prepare.

We generally do no tweaking of any stats. Granted there will be a few novel figures that take a Hit with the transition to 2.0 rules but as you stated, it's only a small percentage. The BIGGER majority get a boost with the addition of surge, doubletime, and Adventuring company cards.

95 chargers out of 1,743 with a 6 or less speed - 1648 viable figures
61 bounders out of 1,743 with a 6 or less speed - 1682 viable figures

A war Hatchettkrugg has always been a force in 1.0 and will continue to do so in 2.0. It doesn't however RAM for 20in as when using double-time ALL movement special abilities and subfaction are turned off. They are strong but not unbeatable strong by any means. We've learned to just simply adapt. The 20in doubletime is great, but the problem with that is that it is 20in away from the rest of it's own support figures. It's rather easy to just simply surge them at the rear and damage or outright surge to the rear and capture. They also can't do squat against soaring bounders.

The Magestone Knight had never really shined as a great figure in 1.0 . You could barely make any manuever with a 3in bounder. Scorpem Gunners gain my respect more.

As for the Weak Centaur shaman versus WarHatchettkruggs? that 11 points difference means a lot. 5 x WarHatchettkruggs versus 5 centaur shamans means that around 55pts added to your main attacking primary figure or an 5 x 11 point fodders (roughly 7 x weak woodland scouts for example). Take Note that a figure cannot breakaway and double-time.

Your mind will just go "bonkers" (in a good way) over the many cool options that opened up. It's a double edged sword, Both you and your opponents share the same advantage anyway. Have absolute great fun looking over the stuff that we originally set aside in the past simply because it didn't have neither bound or the charge ability.


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Re: Question about adjusting rules

Post by Harkonius on Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:28 pm

Oh ok, so you dont do any rule adjusting then. I get everything you stated, as a game the latest ruleset opens up a pandora's box pretty much. (Bare with me as I played alot with 1.0 when it was just 200 points, and a bit with 300).

But as a miniature wargame and not just a game, the rules should represent the game world as faithfully and as 'realistically' as possible within the context of said world.

Take my example again. A Centaur Shaman and a War Hatchetkrugg pretty much have the same movement capabilities for that  top click. Do you think that a big lumbering War Yak being ridden by a heavyset, fully plate armored Krugg with heavy weapons is going to be able to blaze that 20 inch trail as efficiently as a natural born Centaur who is totally unencumbered with practically no clothing except for her leaf corset-brassiere?

If all this is is a competitive game about who can exploit the ruleset as best they can to make the most killer armies, then sure this doesn't mean anything, and there's nothing wrong with enjoying a game in that aspect. But if one cares about the lore, the context of the figures within the gameworld, the behavioural aspects of units within an army, etc., it becomes a bit of a deal I'd say.
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Re: Question about adjusting rules

Post by Admin on Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:44 pm

We'll bear with, as your MK 1.0 collection may literally OUTCLASS the 2.0 figures :-) . Don't worry, we're so used to it. A lot of the guys enjoy going against unknown figures with lower point cost.

Hehehe you're asking me how a medium armored Krugg atop a War Yakk can run as fast as a Centaur Shaman with a corset-brassiere and a few vegetation at the back?

Take note that a discussion of this nature can stretch as far as one may want to take it without having to come to a real concise agreeable conclusion. :-)

Maybe it's not really all about the actual speed but the distance being covered? We don't really know how long a duration a "turn" is. It could be a minute or 30 minutes or longer. True, that the Centaur Shaman may likely have the faster acceleration/speed than the War Yak. Eventually, the War Yak will cover the same distance at some point given an ample amount of time ("turn").

With the centaur shaman having great speed, it can cover further than 20in but at what cost? In our world, The cheetah is the fastest land mammal. Immediately after running it's top speed it's muscles and Oxygen intake takes a fatigue toll and thus it can't keep running the same speed continuously for a long time ("turn"). The centaur shaman may know of it's own limits and will not opt to push herself that much only to find herself panting for breath and an easy prey as soon as she stops.

The warhatchett Krug figure is not just about the mount but the rider. The War Yak may tire of running, but the rider is still fresh and good to go with the attack as soon as the steed stops.
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Re: Question about adjusting rules

Post by Harkonius on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:27 pm

You're saying :

1.) Centaur Shaman runs fast, then stops and catches her breath - 20"
2.) War Hatchetkrugg trogs slowly but surely - 20"

^ Usapang pang inuman. Laughing 
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Re: Question about adjusting rules

Post by Admin on Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:47 pm



sagot ko unang bote pre...
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